Grimart's Ddescription

Welp there we go, now all of our discourse can end and we can discuss the aspects of transgenderism in a civilized matter in the comments... definitely... totally not gonna still be combative at times... nooo waaaay...

Last two panels lowkey have me stressed for what happens next.

so will he attack zen now? it may be just me but i think he deserves some serious clubbing

luxichub13 said:
this doesn't make tini look any better or sympathetic. Even if it's canon behavior as the author put it to spin it as a violation on a trans character makes no sense. Tini is the problem here their not the one hurting anymore in a sense. It's sad because this could of been a great moment of character growth for them. instead hes going to break his most loyal friends arm. The context here being defined as an In canon explanation of his species is just bad like this kills the whole argument of he's struggling with his identity because it's become a hollow reason for Tini to lash out. it's really bad here too because thier the main character were supposed to understand and feel something for Tini. This just being a nidoking thing makes them the bad guy here. This isn't a transgender thing, this is just abusive for the sake of abusive and the reasoning here behind it is lazy. I hope the author sees this comment and understands that I mean this constructively it's a great comic and Thier are wonderful moments such as alini and the attempt at Tini getting help for example,up until the Maggie incident and here I was rooting for Tini but your reasoning for explaining it away only makes it worse and completely destroys the sympathy I had for the character

I do agree that explaining it away as a species thing can be seen as lazy writing, if it takes away from the plot from you, perhaps adopt the mentality of, "While this is the author's story and universe, the internal canon displayed in the actual content trumps the author's out-of-story comments."

I am not using this as a way of simply hand-waving it away. The things that Grimart has said are not exactly contradicted in the comic (I don't remember any other Nidokings or Nidoqueens on their own or seen as couples at least, correct me if I'm wrong).

And TiNi getting (supposedly, the doc didn't get to get in his head so who knows, could be a switcheroo and we were fools all along) mindfucked and his dickish behavior being natural for his species is not incompatible. You could simply say that the mindfucking mixed with the natural dickishness plus the people who pushed him into thinking all minor opposition to the change in his behavior are an attack and therefore causing him to lash out with that already existing aggression. But I do understand your frustrations.

luxichub13 said:
this doesn't make tini look any better or sympathetic.

I don't think it's supposed to. It's to explain their behavior, not excuse it. TiNi has not been a nice person since the start of the comic, with the racism against psychic types and excessive violent outbursts. And I mean, they work as a gladiator that gets to rape their defeated opponent after each match. Not to mention has been using Zen for his illusion ability so TiNi can pretend to be loyal to Maggie when they have sex, and is completely cold to Zen's feelings toward them. And we don't know if Maggie knows about the after-match sex, or that they regularly sleep with Zen. However, people have been complaining about how TiNi hasn't been a nice person since "coming out as trans", and making it look like coming out as trans means you act like a shitty person, when in fact TiNi's been a pretty shitty person since the beginning, before any gender identity issues came up. Grimart is merely using canon lore about nidokings and nidoqueens as a basis for TiNi and Maggie's behaviors.

I-is this gonna become of mice and men but pokemon at some point? I feel like it will be.

luxichub13 said:
It's not that it's incompatible it's that it's a horrible excuse being explained by it's a species thing. If he was mind broken why hit tini in the character portayal in addition to that. It makes Tini completely unlikeable i loved this comic and I could at least understand him before the idea of his likeability was completely destroyed. By making Tini a bad person it invalidates the point of the plot so far. Your supposed to feel bad for Tini and hope that the resolution of it all comes out satisfying and Justified, but by killing any likeability he had before hand with the weak reasoning of nidokings are all horribly cruel or bad tempered in canon you remove the ability to be sympathetic for him

Something that you're missing here is that not all main characters are meant to be liked. Tini is facing the consequences for acting on an already established established aggressive nature. He works as a gladiator, something to act on violent impulses in an otherwise civilized setting. Beyond this he goes out of his way to violate opponents that are already physically brutalized. All by his own choice as far as we can see given he is perfectly allowed to leave. He brushes off a lot of what his only real support says and then stops caring for their preferences all together. They might be rattled in the head, but it plays off if his already aggressive and dismissive mindset. This isn't a simple good boy protag facing moral trouble. This is a toxic character who has their ego and aggression dialed up from normal levels and given a tumultuous personality shift rooted in an already sour past. We can hope yes, but they are getting shafted by their own preexisting behaviors. We like them like we like our one friend who's honestly an asshole sometimes.

endor-7th said:
Welp there we go, now all of our discourse can end and we can discuss the aspects of transgenderism in a civilized matter in the comments... definitely... totally not gonna still be combative at times... nooo waaaay...

In all seriousness glad to be reading this, though hate how good you are at making us feel.

You jinxed it

I think this time is a good reminder of death of the author is always a thing.

Personally, grimart's statement felt reductive to me. Assholes exists and will be assholes feels reductive to me, but hey it makes good stories atleast.

I absolutely think grimart is doing everything right with how he's portraying things. People shouldn't be comparing this to real-world issues with gender because it is a story about brainwashing and Pokemon -- the story does, however, have a very realistic representation of what a toxic community is like in terms of gender identity. And THAT to me is amazing.

If this comic makes its way to you grim, I want you to know I definitely see what you were going for here. The tones of Nidoking and Nidoqueen's nature in this story make it really interesting to me. Want you to know I've got your back ✌

lmao people seriously think this is about someone coming out as trans, when it's clearly a brainwashing plot. tini was brainwashed, and all his rude behavior was established as rude behavior before he was brainwashed. the difference now is that he's in a group chat that's teaching him that everyone who disagrees with him is attacking him and they deserve to be attacked back, with violence. tini's not likable, and it's a shame that the asshole is going to be an asshole, but he most certainly hadn't yet faced something that would force him to change or develop. as we've seen, not even Maggie can tame him. and zen only tames him by BEING Maggy. this is a losing situation, until he can't lose anymore.

I'm looking at all these comments and all I can think is... am I on e621 or Twitter?🤔

sauoce said:
You jinxed it

I think he/she was being sarcastic.

alextalbain said:
I'm looking at all these comments and all I can think is... am I on e621 or Twitter?🤔

Fr, though mine is mostly just cats and the occasional comic

"Just about all Nidokings are asses in this universe to fit with their canonically short temper."

I know I've been hard on this comic, but that right there seems like a cop-out. Making "every nidoking jackasses" isn't a proper way to convey a character nor should it ever be an excuse for anyone to do anything. Also needing to make an entire separate comic to explain actions in this one is again bad storytelling, just put it in the main one. Now I'm not sure on the while trans thing, but I actually do appreciate showing us the "true colors" or the "ugly side" on Tini since that does expand his character, just don't try to shove it under "all nidokongs are like that and he's always been an ass to Maggie.

juptyie said:
"Just about all Nidokings are asses in this universe to fit with their canonically short temper."

I know I've been hard on this comic, but that right there seems like a cop-out. Making "every nidoking jackasses" isn't a proper way to convey a character nor should it ever be an excuse for anyone to do anything. Also needing to make an entire separate comic to explain actions in this one is again bad storytelling, just put it in the main one. Now I'm not sure on the while trans thing, but I actually do appreciate showing us the "true colors" or the "ugly side" on Tini since that does expand his character, just don't try to shove it under "all nidokongs are like that and he's always been an ass to Maggie.

The reason why I stated this is because people were accusing me of trying to show transgender individuals in a negative light by TiNi being stereotypically boorish. It's not a copout. TiNi has always acted like an ass and it can be seen even in the start of the comic, as sorenxoras, Watsit, and qwop9992 noted. Belgian Malinois are naturally high strung/energetic working dogs. Does making Belgian Malinois characters workaholics seem like a copout? No? Then why would it be for Nidokings, which are canonically known for rampaging? "Nidoking is known to be very proud of its own strength. When Nidoking goes on a rampage, it becomes impossible to control. Only a Nidoqueen that it has lived with for a long time can calm it down from its rampages." If I showed other Nidokings being assholes, it wouldn't change my statement nor would it make TiNi's behavior any more a 'copout'. Why can't I as a writer make the majority of a species act stereotypically, when it's a reflection of what happens in real life? A human with a family history of anger management issues is more likely to have anger management issues themselves. Behavioral genetics is real.

juptyie said:
"Just about all Nidokings are asses in this universe to fit with their canonically short temper."

I know I've been hard on this comic, but that right there seems like a cop-out. Making "every nidoking jackasses" isn't a proper way to convey a character nor should it ever be an excuse for anyone to do anything. Also needing to make an entire separate comic to explain actions in this one is again bad storytelling, just put it in the main one. Now I'm not sure on the while trans thing, but I actually do appreciate showing us the "true colors" or the "ugly side" on Tini since that does expand his character, just don't try to shove it under "all nidokongs are like that and he's always been an ass to Maggie.

It's not so much as the base being an ass really, more than most people become asses when they're angry or combative. Nidokings are canonically known for short tempers and being difficult to sway while incensed so they easilly turn into asses when provoked. with this in mind it really is amazing that Zen was able to calm Tini down enough and sway them to see a psychic type mental doctor. be it mellowing out the cannon or displaying that - for a Nidoking - Tini is more mellow than a normal. Try to remember that these comics have a theme of taking trauma and contentious topics and showing us the ugly side of things. they're not feel good comics like most people make. they have moments sure, but ultimately they're going to get ugly and things will fall apart. They show us a different part of life that people with similar traumas and difficulties can connect with.

grimart said:
The reason why I stated this is because people were accusing me of trying to show transgender individuals in a negative light by TiNi being stereotypically boorish. It's not a copout. TiNi has always acted like an ass and it can be seen even in the start of the comic, as sorenxoras, Watsit, and qwop9992 noted. Belgian Malinois are naturally high strung/energetic working dogs. Does making Belgian Malinois characters workaholics seem like a copout? No? Then why would it be for Nidokings, which are canonically known for rampaging? "Nidoking is known to be very proud of its own strength. When Nidoking goes on a rampage, it becomes impossible to control. Only a Nidoqueen that it has lived with for a long time can calm it down from its rampages." If I showed other Nidokings being assholes, it wouldn't change my statement nor would it make TiNi's behavior any more a 'copout'. Why can't I as a writer make the majority of a species act stereotypically, when it's a reflection of what happens in real life? A human with a family history of anger management issues is more likely to have anger management issues themselves. Behavioral genetics is real.

Nidokings are not canonical known for rampage, it's not stated in any pokedex entries and we don't see that in the anime ever. I'm not going to go and show you how wrong you are, because you can't even get your own character to known for "rampaging and being an ass". Nothing in the story ever indicated anything like that

sorenxoras said:
It's not so much as the base being an ass really, more than most people become asses when they're angry or combative. Nidokings are canonically known for short tempers and being difficult to sway while incensed so they easilly turn into asses when provoked. with this in mind it really is amazing that Zen was able to calm Tini down enough and sway them to see a psychic type mental doctor. be it mellowing out the cannon or displaying that - for a Nidoking - Tini is more mellow than a normal. Try to remember that these comics have a theme of taking trauma and contentious topics and showing us the ugly side of things. they're not feel good comics like most people make. they have moments sure, but ultimately they're going to get ugly and things will fall apart. They show us a different part of life that people with similar traumas and difficulties can connect with.

"Nidokings are canonically known for short tempers and being difficult to sway while incensed so they easilly turn into asses when provoked. "

This is where it all falls apart, no where does it ever stated that nidokings are known for that stuff. Neither in the pokedex or in the anime are they ever portrayed like that, and you can't put angry people are assess when angry because that'd not real. When someone is angry, they're angry and act out of anger. To be an ass is to deliberately try to put someone else down, while you have a clear head and it's something you do repeatedly and consistently and is not affected by a state of mind

juptyie said:
Nidokings are not canonical known for rampage, it's not stated in any pokedex entries and we don't see that in the anime ever. I'm not going to go and show you how wrong you are, because you can't even get your own character to known for "rampaging and being an ass". Nothing in the story ever indicated anything like that

Ruby/Sapphire dex:
Nidoking's thick tail packs enormously destructive power. With one swing, it can topple a metal transmission tower. Once this Pokémon goes on a rampage, there is no stopping it.

Sword dex:
When it goes on a rampage, it's impossible to control. But in the presence of a Nidoqueen it's lived with for a long time, Nidoking calms down.

Shield dex:
Nidoking prides itself on its strength. It's forceful and spirited in battle, making use of its thick tail and diamond-crushing horn.

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Nidoking_(Pok%C3%A9mon)#Pok.C3.A9dex_entries_2

juptyie said:
Nidokings are not canonical known for rampage, it's not stated in any pokedex entries and we don't see that in the anime ever. I'm not going to go and show you how wrong you are, because you can't even get your own character to known for "rampaging and being an ass". Nothing in the story ever indicated anything like that

Adding to what Watsit posted about the pokedex verifying that Nidokings rampage, I did show TiNi rampaging. https://e621.net/posts/2812876?pool_id=23956 He would have killed the Garchomp had it not been for a Nidoqueen calming him down. https://e621.net/posts/2811510?pool_id=23956 Zen says "Here we go again" meaning it's happened more than once. What's been shown of TiNi 'being an ass' is up to the individual. Some people feel he's been an ass so far, some people don't. Talking shit about Psychic Pokemon in the way he's been doing is TiNi being an asshole. You don't need to be so boorish talking about a group of people, but he does anyway. Being an ass doesn't mean you need to have a clear mind to do so. You can be an asshole regardless of whether you're happy, sad, angry, neutral, depressed, etc.

juptyie said:
"Nidokings are canonically known for short tempers and being difficult to sway while incensed so they easilly turn into asses when provoked. "

This is where it all falls apart, no where does it ever stated that nidokings are known for that stuff. Neither in the pokedex or in the anime are they ever portrayed like that, and you can't put angry people are assess when angry because that'd not real. When someone is angry, they're angry and act out of anger. To be an ass is to deliberately try to put someone else down, while you have a clear head and it's something you do repeatedly and consistently and is not affected by a state of mind

Anger helps remove the inhibitions that keep the more harmful thoughts and actions in check, and it makes you less inclined to listen to what others are saying. perhaps the local use of ass and jackass are different in your area than in mine, but when i hear ass and jackass when attributed to a person it usually refers to somebody who is being unreasonably stubborn. when talking about somebody who's being mean for the sake of being mean, that would be an asshole. So yes, Nidokings are in fact known for becoming stubborn and generally unwilling/able to listen to others while put into a combative state of mind. to put more into this Nidokings are known for going on rampages, this has been a thing since ruby and sapphire. a rampage is specifically noted as an uncontrolled violent outburst. There wouldn't be violence in this state of anger if there wasn't already an inclination of becoming violent in general.

This comment section is hell.